tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8215036862051955994.post8231936487176660894..comments2023-04-07T23:13:18.502-10:00Comments on Marks in the Margin: AdmissionsRichard Katzevhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03466537940588392927noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8215036862051955994.post-55219918668479142742017-11-28T11:29:28.553-10:002017-11-28T11:29:28.553-10:00Glad to hear at least somebody agrees with me.Glad to hear at least somebody agrees with me.Richard Katzevhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03466537940588392927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8215036862051955994.post-87601921022134232502017-11-28T09:14:45.466-10:002017-11-28T09:14:45.466-10:00OK . . . sigh. The Guardian agrees with you. htt...OK . . . sigh. The Guardian agrees with you. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/may/13/admissions-by-henry-marsh-review<br /><br />I over-reacted - will put the book on hold at my library.<br /><br />Wonder if Marsh would sell me a suicide kit.Lindahttps://commonplacefortheuncommon.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8215036862051955994.post-15571034352095227192017-11-28T08:12:15.670-10:002017-11-28T08:12:15.670-10:00Linda:
Yes, you do seem out of sorts today.
Th...Linda:<br /><br />Yes, you do seem out of sorts today. <br /><br />The view that you learn more from failures than successes has a long and important philosophical foundation. See Karl Popper's views of Falsification. What do you learn from a success? To repeat what you already know. What do you learn from a failure? You have to learn a new approach. You have to try something different.<br /><br />Henry Marsh is a very honest man. He doesn't always treat people with condescension and he rarely pretends to a knowing more than he does. <br /><br />At times the book is rather technical but there's much to be learned from a highly regarded neurosurgeon.<br /><br />RichardRichard Katzevhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03466537940588392927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8215036862051955994.post-70406752627089413182017-11-28T07:02:49.116-10:002017-11-28T07:02:49.116-10:00Interesting discussion. I too am surprised that a...Interesting discussion. I too am surprised that a brain surgeon would declare that "we always learn more from failure than success. Success teaches us nothing." I think there is some science that disputes that. Perhaps it depends on the activity or behaviour. I can remember mistakes I've made that were painful enough that I learned from them, but it seems to me that success might just as well illuminate some new knowledge or insight or sharpen a skill. I can remember those experiences as well.<br /><br />No doubt though, for a brain surgeon with a terrible temper who treats patients and physicians with condescension, deceives some patients to pretend to a greater level of competence and knowledge, and who is "troubled for a few months" by his failure that took a terrible toll on the life of a patient, the belief that his failure makes him more learned than a successful outcome would have is, well, convenient for him. I rather sympathize with those Kathmandu families.<br /><br />And the fact that he dreads dying slowly in a hospital at the mercy of "unknown people" (maybe people like himself?) and has stocked himself a handy suicide kit to avoid that (which most of us cannot do), is a supreme irony.<br /><br />Thought-provoking, fascinating, stimulating as ever, Richard. I think I need to read this book. <br /><br />(P.S.I am in a bit of a cynical and pessimistic mood today.)Lindahttps://commonplacefortheuncommon.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8215036862051955994.post-27737393287685244412017-11-28T05:18:14.352-10:002017-11-28T05:18:14.352-10:00Hi Dom:
I will take up your questions in order:
...Hi Dom:<br /><br />I will take up your questions in order:<br /><br />1. It depends on what you mean by learning. You don’t really learn anything if you are successful, other than what you did worked. On the other hand, you learn quite a bit when you are unsuccessful. You have to keep trying something different and that entails learning something NEW.<br /><br />2. I really can’t answer that question without knowing the specific situation in which it is relevant. In medicine, some doctors refuse to mislead or deceive a patient, while others might think differently. It's a highly personal decision and depends a great deal on the patient, his or her knowledge of their condition, the nature of their disease and the uncertainty of the treatment.<br /><br />Richard<br /><br />Richard Katzevhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03466537940588392927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8215036862051955994.post-309489118820075692017-11-28T00:05:56.790-10:002017-11-28T00:05:56.790-10:00Your blog discussion is very thought-provoking. Re...Your blog discussion is very thought-provoking. Reading the blog discussion leads me to wonder:<br /><br />1. Learning from success – Is it really true, as the author stated, that “Success teaches us nothing”? Doesn’t success provide us with some guidance in distinguishing between successful and unsuccessful ways of doing things? When we take a certain approach and it is successful that success “nudges” us to repeat that effort again in the future, rather than exploring alternative ways that may or may not lead to success?<br /><br />2. Appropriate deceit – Under what circumstances, if any, is it justified or appropriate to do as the author did “to pretend to a greater level of competence and knowledge than we know to be the case, and try to shield our patients a little from the frightening reality they often face”?Domhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18314179629833165321noreply@blogger.com